Transcript :

LEO COMPUTERS LTD -  Oral History Project
Interview with Jean Elliott by Elisabetta Mori

EM: It's the 17th of July 2017 and I am Elisabetta Mori.  I am interviewing Jean Elliott to give us the story of her involvement with LEO Computers from the earliest days.  Good afternoon Jean; we are recording this interview as part of the LEO Computer Society Oral History Project.  The audio version and the transcript will be lodged at the central archive and made available fo research and members of the public.  I am recording this interview with a zoom hand recorder, H4N.  We are at Jean's place in Greens Norton Northamptonshire.  Kerry Elliott, Jean's daughter, is present.  Perhaps you would like to introduce yourself, your family where and when you were born, your education and so on?
JE:  Hello, I was born in Margate Kent in 1928, I had one brother who was four years older than me.  My father was a chauffeur, he had been in the army until the middle 20's and was a reservist, my mother was a housewife.  I went to Holy Trinity Primary School and won a scholarship to Clarendon House School when I was eleven.  It was the local Grammar School in Ramsgate.
Unfortunately, war came along and my father had to go back into the army in 1939.  My father was in France. he came on leave for Christmas. 1939 and then we didn't hear from him for a long time.  On June 4th 1940 my school was to be evacuated to Stafford.  My brother went to a Technical School and was sent to Bicester,  My mother was allowed to stay so that my father would be able to contact her, and, as it happens, he landed at Ramsgate on the day that I left!  People with no particular purpose had to leave Thanet - which is the part of Kent in which both Margate and Ramsgate are situated. 
 My father was eventually billeted in Lambourn Berkshire and my Mother joined him and I spent my summer holidays there that year.  My father was sent to the Middle East before the end of the year - 1940 .  My mother had to do war work as she had no domestic responsibilities.
I stayed in Stafford until December 1944  Our school went as a complete entity, we shared  with Stafford High School.  We used their premises on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and on Wednesdays and Fridays we used an old prep school - Baswich House -  and we went to the Tech on Monday mornings.  I think this was just to keep us out of our foster parents hair a bit more. Stafford High School  alternated schools with us  Most of us went home in the holidays, but because my mother worked I usually spent the holidays with one of my many Aunts and Uncles and Mum visited.
  The people who looked after me in Stafford were very kind and tolerant but they were old and had never had children and I must admit I was very homesick and kept an eye out for he postman.  In the mean time my brother had joined the army at sixteen because he wasn't very happy - and my father had done that in the first world war.
I loved school - we all looked out for one another.  I did quite well and matriculated in the London School Cert in 1944 and then went into the sixth form, we had three groups - Science, Arts and Commercial - and I took Science.  Fate steps in again here, it was decided that the school would return to Ramsgate after the Christmas holiday in January 1945.
My father came back from Burma just before Christmas 1944 and we all spent some time together - except my brother of course, he was still in Burma .  My parents decided that as I had nowhere to live in Thanet I should leave school and arranged with the school for that to happen. I stayed in London with my Aunt and Uncle as my father was still in the army and my mother working.
My parents found a house in Stourbridge Worcestershire when my father was demobbed  but I'm afraid their marriage didn't last.  When my mother was alone she asked me to come home and I worked in the Stourbridge tax office - which was interesting.  When my brother was demobbed I returned to London where most of my friends were.  I asked for a transfer from the Stourbridge tax office and was sent to Somerset House which was the headquarters of The Inland Revenue then.  I worked in the statistics section and made some good friends there.  Sometimes it was hectic and sometimes you were working on records that were years old and seemed pointless.  The busy times were when questions had been asked in Parliament and the answers had to be got out quickly.   I loved walking around the city in my lunch hour.   Because of all the bombing you could see lots of amazing old buildings that all seem lost now. My work friends and I had to socialise in the early evening before we went home because we lived in such disparate parts of London.  However, it was expensive to travel into town each day and took time, so I thought that a job nearer home would suit better.  My cousin's husband suggested Lyons and I applied and was offered a job in Chocolate Sales which I accepted.  Again, it was frantic in the morning and slow in the afternoon, my colleagues were lovely and I enjoyed it, especially being able to eat in the canteen.
Elisabetta:  Which year was that, when you applied for Lyons?
JE:  I think I was about  1947. One day I saw an offer for management training on the notice board, apparently it was only for men but I didn't know, so I applied.  I was transferred to the Personnel section in the Bakery Sales Office which was huge because of all the shops, hotels and other outlets they had to supply. 
 JE:  There were three of us in the Personnel section,  I can't remember the name of the lady who was in charge, her assistant Miss Deller - always known as Della - and me.  Della became my good friend.
 My work was varied, I took parties around the factory, I visited the sick, I temped on any section that needed assistance, I analysed the time sheets so that charges could be made to the right sections.  Frood was a new venture then and I did some telesales there Frozen food was a new concept.
I don’t know how I came to work for LEO., whether it was offered or if I applied.  Mr Thompson was largely in charge, he was a director of Lyons.   He seemed a little eccentric but charming.  LEO was generally referred to within the company as Thompson's Folly.  No one thought it would come to fruition.  When I joined LEO there was just Mr Lenaerts, Ernie, and probably the two boys - Ray and Gordon - and Mr Pinkerton, of course and we all got on.  I was told that Mr Lenaerts had approached Mr Thompson with the idea of a computer to do the wages whilst he was still in the RAF, he had worked on radar and electronics during his service and in Lyons wages office before the war and could see the potential
EM:  Did you ever hear about a computer before?
JE:  No, I had no inkling.  And I'd never heard of binary arithmetic. There was no set up, it was all very rudimentary.  There was a huge warehouse space, Mr Pinkerton's office, some benches and a store room.  There may have been odd sections of electrical parts being assembled and then changed.  My job was to take notes, keep stores and to do drawings.  I don't mean the clever stuff, Mr Pinkerton or Mr Lenaerts would rough it out and then I would copy it on tracing paper in Indian ink.  You could scratch the Indian ink off and amend as necessary.  The block schematic drawings indicated how the information travelled through the various panels it was really fascinating to me and they were good at explaining.  They even let me solder some bits so that I could honestly say that I worked on it - I do hope they weren't dry joints!
We did start to learn about programming - Mr Pinkerton gave us talks, but in those days the information entered on punched tape, I've no idea if the present method is related.
We had a few exciting times, such as when Princess Elizabeth and Prince Philip were invited to see the first progamme go through the machine.  At another stage we were all invited to dinner at the Trocadero - it belonged to Lyons then - there were people from EDSAC and the Rutherford Laboratories there as well I believe.
We interacted socially to some extent, Lyons had a huge estate at Greenford where all sorts of things took place, we were all in a sketch there on one occasion.
EM:  So how many  years did you work for Lyons and for LEO?  
JE:  For Lyons about four and a half years and for LEO about three of those.  It was an exciting time and a happy time.  Mr Kay had arrived by this time but I don't remember having too much contact with him.  The next arrivals were an assistant for me and a young lad and while I was there that was all of us.
I left in June 1951 I think. I was pregnant and after that I didn't work for sixteen years.  Then when my younger daughter was six I worked as a school secretary for a while and then for my husband until I retired at sixty one.
EM:  Were you married when you joined Lyons?  
JE: No. I got married when I was with LEO.
EM:  And what do you remember, were there other women working with you?
JE:  Only my assistant and sometimes Mr Thompson's junior secretary - Lyons directors had two secretaries and sometimes a male one if they were travelling I believe!
EM:  What do you remember about the LEO 1 computer?
JE:  I remember the enormous power pack to service the machine and it was one of my duties to switch it on in the morning, not one of my favourite  jobsI   It still looked like a work in progress when I was there and just dressed up for special occasions.  The things that impressed me most were the memory tubes that could store and relinquish information as required. It seemed magical and quite beyond my experience.  I hadn't heard of electronics never mind storing information in tubes filled with mercury.
EM:  And what do you remember about Pinkerton and Thompson?
JE:  They were both kind and considerate to work for.  I wasn't so keen on Mr. Kay, but perhaps he was more reserved.
EM:  What really remains of your experience in LEO?   
JE:  A sort of happy excitement and glad to have been a small part of it.  Although it hasn't been at the front of my consciousness most of the time I must admit.
EM:  And what about when you were paid, was your pay equal with men?
JE:  I must have been happy with it and I have no idea how much anyone else was paid.  Lyons had a grading system and I would have been paid according to my grade.  I managed comfortably and could save - through a Lyons scheme actually.
EM:  And do you remember the team of programmers?
JE:  There was no team of programmers on site.
EM:  Do you remember David Caminer?
JE:  No
EM:  And have you ever participated in the LEO Computers reunions, organised by the LEO Computer Society? 
JE:  My husband and I were invited once to a dinner - probably in the seventies - I think it was at the headquarters of the British Lions somewhere in Marylebone.  We spoke with Mr Pinkerton and Ray but I don't remember Mr Kay, Mr Lenaerts or Gordon being there.  The only reason that I'm in touch now is because my son found something on the internet and a picture of me with rest of the start up crew.  
EM:  Were you aware of what you were working on?
JE:  No.  I knew it was ground breaking but not how revolutionary it would be.  I had no idea of the scope, and am glad to have been a small cog in the wheel.
EM:   What was the dream, what was the job that you would have liked to do?
JE:  The only career that I had looked into - I was only in the Lower 6th when I left school - was to become a pharmacist.  Boots had a scheme, a sort of apprenticeship, where they put you through college and you gave them a number of years work to compensate.  I can't remember the details.
EM:  And so you didn't manage to go to university?
JE:  No, I always meant to when the children were older but I never got round to it   I've always gone to evening classes and carried on learning but not at such an exalted level!
EM:  Any other memory  you would like to share?  Like people at Lyons/LEO  you remember?
JE:  Nothing that would be of any interest.
EM:  What was your husband's job. 
JE:  He was in the RAF when we married and then a joiner.
EM:  Did you miss Lyons when you retired?
JE:   You mean when I left LEO?  Yes I missed the company and the purpose that comes with a job.  It is quite a shock to find yourself with nothing to do for a start and then having the almost exclusive company of a crying baby.
EM:  Had you ever thought of going back to work for Lyons?
JE:  No. I wanted to look after my children myself.
EM:  Were there facilities with Lyons for children?
JE:  I'm not sure.  I can't remember and as I worked in Personnel I think I would have known.  I suppose they weren't really necessary as the men were coming back from the war and for a time women stayed at home.  
 You got resentment from some of the men in departments.  They would say " I've worked here twenty years and not been offered training" but they probably hadn't applied.
EM: So tell me a little more about the fact that you applied for a man's job and got hired
JE:  I should have known that the notice only applied to men.  Women were barred from many jobs when they married then.  It was changing gradually.  They were probably were right because I became pregnant and left.
EM:  This interview with Jean Elliott has been recorded by the LEO Computers Society and the Society would like to thank Jean for her time and reminiscences.  The interview and the transcript form part of an Oral History project to document the early use of electronic computers in business and other applications but particularly business.  Any opinions expressed are those of the interviewee and not of the Society.  The copyright of this interview remains the property of the LEO Computers Society.  Thank you very much.

Provenance :
Recording made by the LEO Computers Society as part of their ongoing oral history project.

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